Monomi
Headmaster
Posts: 1,192
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Post by Monomi on Oct 10, 2018 2:08:42 GMT
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Post by Kyoko Kirigiri on Oct 10, 2018 13:41:43 GMT
lets goooooooo firstly, a question for all 3: i was allied with all of you and defended you hard. gundham. you were probably under more fire than you realized on Future Foundation and early merge from a few people that i deflected. nagito, i put a lot of work into protecting you at f12. if it hadnt been or that and sayaka going crazy you could very easily have gone there. shuichi i dont have so much to say on, but iirc i was one of the first people to publicly start saying that you shoudlnt be the next boot after TT automatically. the point is that i was loyal to all 3 of you and never tried to push you (i was planning on going after shuichi at 6, nagito at 4 and taking gundham to FTC, i only went after shuichi after you guys stopped talking to me and akane said it was the only place she would be voting other than me), and when you voted me out, no one talked to me or admitted to wanting me gone. is there any reason i should value any of our connections when it comes to my vote after a fairly disrespectful backstab? to clarify, the backstab was solid play but to at least hear something 1 min before deadline or w/e would be nice rather than just ignoring me for several hours
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Post by Kyoko Kirigiri on Oct 10, 2018 19:18:09 GMT
lmao gundham using my answer to answer someone else's question without having actually answered my question
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Post by Gundham Tanaka on Oct 10, 2018 19:22:39 GMT
Hey babe I'm trying to go in the order they were asked, but since you're here I'll answer this one next.
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Post by Kyoko Kirigiri on Oct 10, 2018 19:23:46 GMT
lmao was just joking about also btw not a question but i didnt even tell celes about the idol immeadiately. i got it after makoto was voted out. i wouldve trusted you with the knowledge of it play wise (although evidently i shouldnt have) but really didnt want it being leaked
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Post by Gundham Tanaka on Oct 10, 2018 19:32:20 GMT
lets goooooooo firstly, a question for all 3: i was allied with all of you and defended you hard. gundham. you were probably under more fire than you realized on Future Foundation and early merge from a few people that i deflected. nagito, i put a lot of work into protecting you at f12. if it hadnt been or that and sayaka going crazy you could very easily have gone there. shuichi i dont have so much to say on, but iirc i was one of the first people to publicly start saying that you shoudlnt be the next boot after TT automatically. the point is that i was loyal to all 3 of you and never tried to push you (i was planning on going after shuichi at 6, nagito at 4 and taking gundham to FTC, i only went after shuichi after you guys stopped talking to me and akane said it was the only place she would be voting other than me), and when you voted me out, no one talked to me or admitted to wanting me gone. is there any reason i should value any of our connections when it comes to my vote after a fairly disrespectful backstab? to clarify, the backstab was solid play but to at least hear something 1 min before deadline or w/e would be nice rather than just ignoring me for several hours Yeah, Kyoko that round was bad. The reason why I didn't admit to wanting you gone was because well, I didn't. At that point what I wanted was the final 5 being you, me, Celestia, Nagito and Shuichi and being in the middle of 2 final 3 deals. Then I'd probably decide which was the best FTC for me (since no one there really wants me gone) and be open about it. That's why I spent a majority of the round talking to celeste about voting akane, which I thought Mikan was the best swing vote for, as this would have kept both you AND shuichi alive. Unfortunately she didn't take the bait and we had to scramble to try and save you, but I didn't want to spend 24 hours talking to shuichi and then just be like "oh btw I'm voting you". My reasoning for voting akane in the end was genuine, if the vote was going to be between my two allies, I sure as hell wanted another 24 hours to decide and talk to each of them about it, and, not knowing about the celeste vote, thought the only way that happens was if Akane voted shuichi. And then I found out that akane flipped and told celeste 3 minutes before the deadline instead...anytime before then when you could explain that was not true and get her to vote shuichi. So yeah, I never backstabbed you and if I had, I would have talked to you about it beforehand. If you don't think I played that phase right, that's fine, but I did not want you to go there.
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Post by Gundham Tanaka on Oct 10, 2018 19:38:32 GMT
Oh and here is a meme for you:
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Post by Kyoko Kirigiri on Oct 10, 2018 20:07:58 GMT
Good answer. I wasnt sure about your actions that round and figured that an accusatory tone would get a more genuine answer. Gonna wait for the other two to answer, then my next couple questions would be more specific
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Nagito Komaeda
Ultimate Lucky Student
Let's commit the perfect crime together so despair can become the foundation of hope!
Posts: 667
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Post by Nagito Komaeda on Oct 10, 2018 22:55:17 GMT
lets goooooooo firstly, a question for all 3: i was allied with all of you and defended you hard. gundham. you were probably under more fire than you realized on Future Foundation and early merge from a few people that i deflected. nagito, i put a lot of work into protecting you at f12. if it hadnt been or that and sayaka going crazy you could very easily have gone there. shuichi i dont have so much to say on, but iirc i was one of the first people to publicly start saying that you shoudlnt be the next boot after TT automatically. the point is that i was loyal to all 3 of you and never tried to push you (i was planning on going after shuichi at 6, nagito at 4 and taking gundham to FTC, i only went after shuichi after you guys stopped talking to me and akane said it was the only place she would be voting other than me), and when you voted me out, no one talked to me or admitted to wanting me gone. is there any reason i should value any of our connections when it comes to my vote after a fairly disrespectful backstab? to clarify, the backstab was solid play but to at least hear something 1 min before deadline or w/e would be nice rather than just ignoring me for several hours I'm aware that I owed you for having my back. Considering I thought our relationship was good enough and you were strategic enough to vote the bigger threats out with me, I wasn't sure when/if I'd be voting you out at all. When the F8/F7 discussions about doing something to the Losers were happening I wasn't considering you as a vote at all. I was waiting for you to get back to me, I was the last one to message you. I thought you hadn't had time yet or were having more wifi problems, until Akane mentioned you were proposing a vote split. That's why my reaction wasn't to go to you and sort it out. It was such a dramatic shift from how you seemed to get back as soon as you could that my first thought was, oh geez she's cutting me out. If that was a misreading of the situation I'm sorry. It was unexpected and once the vote was locking on you it seemed more awkward to badger you then to leave it in peace.
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Post by Shuichi Saihara on Oct 11, 2018 0:29:02 GMT
Hey Kyoko! Yes, I believed you were loyal to me for a good chunk of the game, and other people told me you were defending me on that tribe. I did try to repay the favor later. At a time the 3 of you/Celestia/Gundham were on the hotseat for a bit, and your name was coming up quite a bit. (Chihiro was after you and she had sway.) I didn't want you to be the one of the wagons, and argued that Gundham was the safest choice to pull a big move on. (In the end they decided on Celestia and I was like "welp")
Either way though, it changed by final 7. We had drifted apart, and I had no idea what your endgame plans were. I couldn't even get a read on them. I even tried bringing it up with you but it was mainly vague responses. You say you were planning on going after me at 6 and I had no idea because you were a complete mystery at that time, so it looks like I played it right.
When I targeted you, I wanted it to be Akane vs. you and I didn't want you to think I was against you. I knew you had an item from Makoto (you told me about it) and although I didn't know the specifics, I knew it wasn't a tragedy reward item (because Makoto already had one) so whatever it was, it could be scary and some form of immunity. It obviously came to light I was targeting you that round anyway. Although straight up the reason I didn't message you at all before the end was I was at D&D for the couple hours before it and totally forgot to check in before 10 minutes after deadline. I didn't talk to anyone else either.
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Post by Kyoko Kirigiri on Oct 11, 2018 10:18:18 GMT
lets goooooooo firstly, a question for all 3: i was allied with all of you and defended you hard. gundham. you were probably under more fire than you realized on Future Foundation and early merge from a few people that i deflected. nagito, i put a lot of work into protecting you at f12. if it hadnt been or that and sayaka going crazy you could very easily have gone there. shuichi i dont have so much to say on, but iirc i was one of the first people to publicly start saying that you shoudlnt be the next boot after TT automatically. the point is that i was loyal to all 3 of you and never tried to push you (i was planning on going after shuichi at 6, nagito at 4 and taking gundham to FTC, i only went after shuichi after you guys stopped talking to me and akane said it was the only place she would be voting other than me), and when you voted me out, no one talked to me or admitted to wanting me gone. is there any reason i should value any of our connections when it comes to my vote after a fairly disrespectful backstab? to clarify, the backstab was solid play but to at least hear something 1 min before deadline or w/e would be nice rather than just ignoring me for several hours I'm aware that I owed you for having my back. Considering I thought our relationship was good enough and you were strategic enough to vote the bigger threats out with me, I wasn't sure when/if I'd be voting you out at all. When the F8/F7 discussions about doing something to the Losers were happening I wasn't considering you as a vote at all. I was waiting for you to get back to me, I was the last one to message you. I thought you hadn't had time yet or were having more wifi problems, until Akane mentioned you were proposing a vote split. That's why my reaction wasn't to go to you and sort it out. It was such a dramatic shift from how you seemed to get back as soon as you could that my first thought was, oh geez she's cutting me out. If that was a misreading of the situation I'm sorry. It was unexpected and once the vote was locking on you it seemed more awkward to badger you then to leave it in peace. I hate everything and myself omfg I was having full on breakdowns over you not PMing me And i had just fucking forgotten to reply to you Jfc
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Post by Kyoko Kirigiri on Oct 11, 2018 10:20:03 GMT
Hey Kyoko! Yes, I believed you were loyal to me for a good chunk of the game, and other people told me you were defending me on that tribe. I did try to repay the favor later. At a time the 3 of you/Celestia/Gundham were on the hotseat for a bit, and your name was coming up quite a bit. (Chihiro was after you and she had sway.) I didn't want you to be the one of the wagons, and argued that Gundham was the safest choice to pull a big move on. (In the end they decided on Celestia and I was like "welp") Either way though, it changed by final 7. We had drifted apart, and I had no idea what your endgame plans were. I couldn't even get a read on them. I even tried bringing it up with you but it was mainly vague responses. You say you were planning on going after me at 6 and I had no idea because you were a complete mystery at that time, so it looks like I played it right. When I targeted you, I wanted it to be Akane vs. you and I didn't want you to think I was against you. I knew you had an item from Makoto (you told me about it) and although I didn't know the specifics, I knew it wasn't a tragedy reward item (because Makoto already had one) so whatever it was, it could be scary and some form of immunity. It obviously came to light I was targeting you that round anyway. Although straight up the reason I didn't message you at all before the end was I was at D&D for the couple hours before it and totally forgot to check in before 10 minutes after deadline. I didn't talk to anyone else either. Yeah thats fair enough Honestly though you were probably about the 3rd or 4th person i wanted to take to the end, i should have been more clear on that
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Nagito Komaeda
Ultimate Lucky Student
Let's commit the perfect crime together so despair can become the foundation of hope!
Posts: 667
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Post by Nagito Komaeda on Oct 11, 2018 10:35:35 GMT
]I hate everything and myself omfg I was having full on breakdowns over you not PMing me And i had just fucking forgotten to reply to you Jfc We are literally the same idiot person too busy having anxiety meltdowns about whether the other will get back to them to just reach out and ask why. >_<
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Post by Kyoko Kirigiri on Oct 11, 2018 13:50:42 GMT
this was compounded by akane playing it really well to make it seem like you two were planning on blindsiding me from the start. akane outshone everyone that TC tbh
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Post by Kyoko Kirigiri on Oct 11, 2018 13:54:47 GMT
Question 2: Gundham, what was the worst position you were in at merge and how did you overcome it? Nagito: assume that coming into merge everyone's relationships were the same. however, you could have had any relationships you wanted. who are you allied with, working against and why? Shuichi: which three players were you most worried about coming into merge, and how did you overcome them?
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Post by Gundham Tanaka on Oct 11, 2018 16:51:06 GMT
Question 2: Gundham, what was the worst position you were in at merge and how did you overcome it? Nagito: assume that coming into merge everyone's relationships were the same. however, you could have had any relationships you wanted. who are you allied with, working against and why? Shuichi: which three players were you most worried about coming into merge, and how did you overcome them? So just gonna break this down round by round, and then go into detail on the round I choose F12: I was safe because I had immunity F11: Eh, the celeste blindside was pushed off of me by chihiro apparently, but I didn't actually do anything to overcome that. F10: Start of the round I was in a bad spot, but then you won HoH. I think I'll probably go with this one though, lemme see. F9: Hiyoko vs Sayaka part 2. Hiyoko went after a lot of work went unpaid, but still not bad. F8: Sayaka went, considered talking to you and Celeste about seriously targeting Nagito and keeping around Sayaka, but wasn't actually in that bad a position. But maybe the aftermath I can talk about. F7: You went, I was never in a terrible position this phase, because I had friends on both sides of this conflict, but it wasn't inspiring to see you go. This solidified my F3 plan with Shuichi and Nagito tho. F6: Was not in danger here at all. And chose who died. F5: Was not in danger here at all. F4: Won Immunity. So yeah, I'd say my worst position was definitely start of round 10. Ibuki was out of the game by this point, but pretty much the person who could likely introduce me to people on the other side (like Hiro and Mikan) kicked the bucket and I was not about to use Chihiro medevaccing as a reason to work together, kind of feels disrespectful to use a fallen ally as a talking point to advance strategy. So at this point, my ties with those two were severed, the amount of people who might come for us 3 is a lot., and yeah, not good. Sayaka had tried to get Akane and Celeste fighting final 12 (at least my PM logs with Celeste say so), but was still actually talking to me, even if we weren't on the best terms, she wasn't huge trouble for me specifically. Akane 100% was not on my side at all at this point, and I think at one point I literally made a joke about asking her for the time of day. Yeah...going in. But then, opportunity struck, the big brother round occurred and you won HoH. I knew this was my opportunity to change stuff for me, if I couldn't easily work with Hiro or Mikan, then I would eliminate one of them. So (and this is off memory so double check your PMs in case this is wrong) I went to you and was like "we need Hiro and Mikan up" and you were like "but Celeste and Shuichi want Sayaka" and then I think I was like "Sayaka can go anytime, these two will be tough to get out if we don't get them now." And after a while you agreed that was the strategic move and immediately nominated Mikan and Hiro. Now I didn't have the ability to influence this other than talking to you so I think I made a strong move there. If noms were kept the same someone I was not close to was out of the game. I also used this round to talk to Hiro and Mikan about how you had nominated them so quickly, because I did not expect that, and try and comfort them a little bit. With Mikan I assured her that she was not going home from this based upon what I had heard and with Hiro it was...weirder. My entire relationship with him was weird. I'm not sure if it was here or later that I agreed with Mikan that we would tell each other if we were voting each other, but the groundwork was laid, especially once Hiyoko was up. I've already talked about how I flipped Akane this vote, but the part I want to talk about is not that, (if you want elaboration again I can give it). The short is that I convinced her Yasuhiro would outlast her if he lived. But I also put into her mind this idea "power rankings" basically, as she put it, if FTC happens now, who wins. I convinced her that she was likely near the top of this, and that she needed people on the bottom to go, and "easy boots" to cover her. People like Sayaka, people like Hiyoko, and that if she kept around Hiyoko she'd have one more round of safety, she'd been at the very least one more round closer to victory (this was also intended to make it so that she would want the 3 of us around as it was obvious people found us threatening). Lo and behold, the next few rounds, the targets are hiyoko and sayaka, in order. Both people who I figured akane would target using this mindset. Then at final 7, when you were up, and final 6, she reiterated the power rankings theory to me as to why she needed Celeste and Me around. I'm sure this isn't the only reason she was doing this, but I'm certain it was a profound affect on her given that she views me "as a mentor and nemesis". My move here was able to turn my entire game around and had waves in previous rounds, so yeah. That was my biggest obstacle, akane, and I changed it by approaching the situation from her point of view and making it allign with mine.
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Post by Kyoko Kirigiri on Oct 11, 2018 18:22:44 GMT
quick clarification on my choice of noms: i had initially wanted to put the two i said up, but wasnt sure i could get away with it. you were one of the reasons i was confident enough to go for it. also i literally had hiyoko and sayaka going when they went from like 2 TCs previously and nagito and shuichi as back up allies i swear we were literally playing the exact same game lmao good answer. i'm glad you went for what you got out of it rather than the actual defence itself. last question incoming,
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Post by Kyoko Kirigiri on Oct 11, 2018 18:24:19 GMT
gundham, which character on australian survivor: champions vs contenders best describes you?
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Post by Kyoko Kirigiri on Oct 11, 2018 20:47:07 GMT
nagito, who was the mole?
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Post by Kyoko Kirigiri on Oct 11, 2018 20:47:48 GMT
shuichi, imagine you arent at ftc right now. as someone who plays survivor, how much do you think challenge prowess should be rated at FTC?
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Post by Gundham Tanaka on Oct 12, 2018 0:30:49 GMT
gundham, which character on australian survivor: champions vs contenders best describes you? Spoiler tagging this but you should know that I have not yet finished the season (only at f6 iirc and spoilers will happpen if you aren't there yet). Okay....so like this season doesn't quite have quite a direct parallel for like what happened this game, but I think I have an answer.
Like as a person totally Samuel. Like dude is an astrophysicist, and is very clearly strategic, but is also a bit of a screwball (and if you've met gerard, you know I'm a fucking screwball). As an example, here's him doing a "cribs" episode on the champions beach:
And he had all these funny moments in his confessionals and at challenges when he wasn't serious at all (like me never answering TC questions, though after a bit I realized like no one was doing this). And like he still clearly played the game and played it hard. Like he very clearly DID NOT want lydia to be voted out, and damn was he pissed when he wasn't listened too (funilly enough, he was right as the champions fell apart soon after this vote). But he did not shy away from trying to take out threats (i.e vote out Matt), and the game clearly got to him. Like the phase he went out Monika explained how panicky he was and how scared he seemed and damn, I can relate to that. But it diverges in that he turned on the threats a lot earlier than I did (and well...I only really turned on Celeste, I never actually voted for you) and I made the end game. He didn't, but yeah, totally sam.
Also dude is an astrophysicist which made me love him even more for.....reasons.
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Post by Shuichi Saihara on Oct 12, 2018 0:37:43 GMT
The way I view challenge prowess in a FTC setting, is it shouldn't play a huge role. Both positively and negatively.
The reward someone gets for winning immunity, is immunity, and it becomes a bit overpowered if they get a lot of jury cred on top of it.
However, I also think any argument saying that being immune all the time should be held against the person is silly. If someone makes it to the end only relying on immunity, and not making strategic or social moves, then I would vote against them, because I value strategy and social stuff. But if they win immunity until the end, and still put a lot of effort in the other parts of the game, and seem to be having success with it, then I would have no problem voting them to win. Because they won that advantage fair and square.
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Nagito Komaeda
Ultimate Lucky Student
Let's commit the perfect crime together so despair can become the foundation of hope!
Posts: 667
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Post by Nagito Komaeda on Oct 12, 2018 0:52:30 GMT
this was compounded by akane playing it really well to make it seem like you two were planning on blindsiding me from the start. akane outshone everyone that TC tbh Hard agree. Akane was really good at causing paranoia. Even she couldn't have known how perfect that moment was. As far as a Survivor meme moment goes it's pretty trainwrecky in the way we'll probably laugh about in a week when it stops being painful. Nagito: assume that coming into merge everyone's relationships were the same. however, you could have had any relationships you wanted. who are you allied with, working against and why? I would have an actual F2 with Hiyoko from the start and we would share everything. That's the biggest thing I wish I could have changed. We'd have side alliances with taking one of Shuichi/Yasuhiro/Gundham with us, preferrably Yasu. Chihiro wouldn't medevac and leave a huge power vacuum. After the F11 round ended assuming Sayaka left, Chihiro and I would use the challenge time to talk and mend our relationship, at least to the point they'd rather blindside Shuichi then come after me first. I wouldn't change being close with Kyoko and Akane, but I would expect Celes to get blindsided instead of Kyoko with those different people alive. I would still ally and stay close to her until it happened.
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Nagito Komaeda
Ultimate Lucky Student
Let's commit the perfect crime together so despair can become the foundation of hope!
Posts: 667
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Post by Nagito Komaeda on Oct 12, 2018 7:51:10 GMT
I can't lie to you anymore Kyoko.
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Post by Shuichi Saihara on Oct 13, 2018 3:04:54 GMT
Wow, I totally missed this question. Sorry. >_<
The three players I was most worried about were Ibuki, Chihiro, and Celestia.
Ibuki we last left on shaky terms and I knew she was a strong player. I was also spreading a lot of shade about her, and with the way information spreads this game, I figured she'd learn I was against her pretty quickly. If she got in a power position, I would be in hot water. I don't know exactly how much of Ibuki getting targeted was my doing, and the wagon didn't really get going until you and Celestia started campaigning for her, but I think I played my part in keeping people hyped about the wagon.
Chihiro I was less worried in terms of us being personally against each other because we had already made progress. But I was worried about her because I thought she was the scariest player in the game. Even more threatening then Celestia or you. I threw shade on her to a lot of people too, and everyone told me that I would be wise to not push her because she's so well connected. (aka they personally were close with her but didn't want to say it) So I eventually decided if I can't beat her, try patching things up with her even harder. I don't know if I would have overcame her, either by becoming her friend again and not needing to be worried or voting her out.
The last was Celestia. I really noticed it during the Teruteru vote. As Teruteru was getting voted out, I was talking to him until the end, and he told me to not trust Celestia and I asked him why. He told me that Celestia asked him whether he'd rather vote for me or Sayaka, and he said he'd rather vote Sayaka over me. Next thing he knew Sayaka was confronting him about why he was targeting her. Basically, Celestia set Teruteru up to fail and get Sayaka against him. And talking wiith Sayaka her story lined up. (Plus Celestia told me she got Sayaka and Chihiro against him) The ease with which she turned the tribe against him like that impressed and scared me, and I knew I always had to stay on her good side after that. I overcame that by going extra time to make sure she trusted me and didn't want to target me.
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